Help me understand ent reproductive biology

[luzula]

So I started thinking about this and now I can't stop. I blame this comment thread.

One possibility is that they have human-like reproductive organs hidden away somewhere. I guess this is not that far-fetched, given that they also have, like, eyes. But I find it a boring idea.

The other possibility is that they reproduce like trees, which I think is more fun! But this has problems. Many trees have flowers with both stamens and pistils. Oaks for example, which I think Treebeard is meant to be, have both, but not always in the same quantities. Some trees are 75% male, some are 25% male, etc. It varies. I do like the idea that the ent/entwife divide doesn't actually have to do with gender but with whether they have an affinity for wilderness or traditional agricultural landscapes. But that doesn't work with canon, because when the entwives are gone, they're supposed to not be able to reproduce anymore. Hmm, there's also the question of whether ents from different tree species can mate, but it seems that canonically they can--I remember Treebeard talking longingly of a birch-entwife.

Surely Tolkien knew that many flowers have both male and female organs? I can't believe he wouldn't know that. Of course, there are trees which are either male or female; willows are a good example. But it annoys me that I can't resolve this without it being either botanically inaccurate or incompatible with canon. : ( I suppose the simplest solution is to pretend that oak trees, too, are either male or female. But damn it, I like them being hermaphroditic. Can anyone see a solution? What was Tolkien thinking here?

I also wonder about the entings. Most trees are r-strategists (many offspring, low investment in each one, in the expectation that many will die), and it's painful to think of the little entings being eaten alive by browsing animals. Maybe they only become conscious when they've survived and reached a certain age?

ETA: And a solution in the comments! Thank you. ♥

Comments

[aria]

I don't have a very well-articulated comment to answer with, but: I love the idea that the ent/entwife divide is more about an affinity for wilderness or agriculture! I like that being their social gender deal. Possibly relatedly: assuming that the ents can in fact procreate between ... tree species?? (although they seem to do tree presentation more like clothing than being Definitely That Sort of Tree) -- maybe they can't procreate without the entwives because the entwives did the agricultural end INCLUDING figuring out how to cultivate ent seedlings? So it's not so much the basic biological function that's gone when the entwives vanish, but the knowledge of how to actually cultivate a viable ent seedling/sapling? This still isn't a perfect answer but I think it does help synthesize some things.

[luzula]

Oh, that is an intriguing idea--that the entwives were the ones to cultivate and nurture the seedling entings. Thank you, I will ponder that more.

ETA: And see comments below! I may have the solution. \o/

[rachelmanija]

Maybe they're all both male and female, but the entwives additionally have some kind of catalyst to make the flowers bloom or produce pollen, without which they can't reproduce.

The ents didn't seem to reproduce that easily even when the entwives were around. I assume that unlike most trees, they're actually K-strategists. If you consider them based on their more intelligent life-like characteristics rather than the fact that they're also trees, they fit better with that. They're large, long-lived, mature late, and most individuals reach their full lifespan.

[luzula]

Thank you! Hmm, combining what you say with Aria's idea, maybe they do produce lots of seeds like trees do, and those seeds actually do turn into ordinary seedlings and then trees. But in order to actually make an enting, a seed needs some sort of nurture/cultivation from an entwife. So they're r-strategists when they produce ordinary trees, but K-strategists when they produce entings.

I feel this is a promising idea! Will write fic. : )

[rachelmanija]

Will read fic!

[genarti]

Ooh, I like this idea a lot!

[luzula]

Me too! I am all excited to write fic about it now.

[espresso_addict]

That works for me! I'd love to read the story.

By the way have you tried Teasel's story Come back to me? It's gen & hobbity, which is why I didn't mention it before, but has a very interesting idea about the entwives that I don't want to spoil for you.

[luzula]

I'm looking forward to writing it! And thanks for the link. *squirrels away story for later*

[auroracloud]

I have nothing constructive to add, but I just love the fact that I can read something like this on my feed.

Maybe Tolkien didn't know/remember about many flowers having male and female organs? I don't know how well-versed he was in biology, and it's the sort of thing people without much biology background could be ignorant of or overlook.

[luzula]

Wasn't botany a much bigger subject in school in the 19th and first half of the 20th century? I think people had to collect and make their own herbarium, and so on, at least in Sweden. And I think Britain would be the same.

[auroracloud]

Ah, that's a good point, though! These days I don't trust people to know anything that I think is obvious, but you're right that botany was a much bigger thing in schools in those time, and I'm sure Britain wasn't at all behind Northern Europeans at the time. So yeah, he probably would know, though whether he consciously thought about that or not, is a different question. But I like the logic here!