Belated December meme: Me and the English language

[luzula]

desireearmfeldt asked: "How did you come to end up in English-language/American-media-centric fandom?"

I've already talked about my fannish history in general elsewhere, so I'm choosing to focus on the word "English" here.

I am Swedish, but my family lived in the US for two years when my dad did his post-doc (in Seattle). I was nine and ten years old then, and soaked up the language like a sponge. When I came back, I got to go to the English classes for native speakers rather than the ones for people learning it as a second language (in Sweden, everyone has the right to have some classes in their native language, whatever it is).

Not that this made much difference--I already read a lot of books in English anyway. And Swedish, of course. I was a total bookworm, obviously. But I think it was my voracious reading that kept me from forgetting the language when I got home. I still have more of a relationship with English-as-written-language than as spoken, I think (although I do speak it well, though with a slight accent). But English has wormed its way into my brain to the extent that when I kept a diary in high school, I kept it in English. And I often think in English, too. Sometimes those lines between the languages are hard to cross--like, I'll know and feel perfectly well what a word or phrase means in one language, but can't find the equivalent words in the other. But I'm getting better at that--I'm doing some Swedish-to-English translation work for my environmental organization, and it's a lot of fun.

I've never been inspired to write fiction in Swedish. Not that I've really tried, I guess? I've done some translations of fairy tale fics, and that's been fun. A funny thing is that I'm pretty sure I'd find reading/writing porn in Swedish kind of weird? Part of that is getting used to words, I guess--I mean, "cock" seems like a perfectly natural word to me in English because I'm used to it, but finding the right word in Swedish is just...awkward. They all seem clinical, or childish, or too coarse, or whatever. I'm sure if I practiced it in Swedish I'd get better at it (I guess you can infer from this that I don't do dirty talk in bed *g*).

But another thing is that when things are close to you, it's harder to read/write fic about them. Kind of like when people don't write sex from the POV of their own gender because it feels too close to you. That's the reaction I had when I stumbled across a Swedish character in an RPF fic once. I was all "ewww, that is too close to me, I don't want to read it!" Which is kind of ridiculous because Americans write RPF about Americans all the time.

Okay, I hope you have enjoyed these rambling thoughts about me and the English language. : )

Comments

[riverlight]

Interesting! I am always fascinated by language and peoples' uses of it, since I'm a passionate language-learner. This is interesting! I'm especially curious about your response to reading fic about Swedish characters, like people do with characters of their own gender. I've never had that, I confess—the closest I've come is refusal to read fic about a musician, but in that case it was because I knew it'd make me jealous, not because it felt too close.

[luzula]

I think a lot of people have lines about RPF that is about their distance from the actual people, and a lot of those lines are pretty arbitrary. I've only read a little bit of FPF about Swedish characters, mostly based on Astrid Lindgren books, but that didn't bother me.

Jealous, in what way? Was this a person you knew in RL?

[aria]

The bit about finding reading/writing Swedish porn kind of weird is really interesting to me! Because yeah, "cock" does seem like a perfectly natural English word because it's used so often in English fic porn, and I'm so incredibly grateful that there's any word for genitalia that's become essentially invisible to me; the rest of what you're describing (all the words you could use seeming clinical, childish, coarse, etc) is very true of me for most other English words, and it took a long time for me to stop feeling like porn-writing was inherently super awkward and silly. I'm not surprised that it's also a potential difficulty in other languages, but it's really cool to hear :)

[luzula]

Yeah, I don't think it's really about Swedish being my native language and English my second (though there may be a little of that in it). I think it's just a get-used-to-it thing, since so many native English speakers go through that period of finding it super-awkward. I went through that in English as well when I started writing sex scenes.

So do you have words for female genitalia that feel natural to you? I'm guessing less so for people who mostly write slash, since one hasn't gone through the get-used-to-it process as much, but that's just a theory. For me, "clit" feels like a pretty natural and neutral word, but I don't have a word that feels really natural for vagina. I've written a fair amount of het and femslash, but apparently not enough...

[jesse_the_k]

Words that RL Lesbian friends have used that I like but I've never seen in fic: kitty and vaj (vadge) as well as clit. Also "butt" can be used for lots of backside-located features, such as anus, cheeks, the lovely place for which I only know the unlovely word "butt crack".

Puts lid back on ID jar.

[luzula]

Interesting! So I'm guessing vaj/vadge is short for vagina--that does seem like a good way to make that word less clinical.

[jesse_the_k]

And "kitty" is a reclaimed "pussy."

[luzula]

Ohhh, okay, I did not get that immediately. But that's pretty cool.

[jesse_the_k]

I liked it — it's friendly without being juvenile. Sadly all my "pussy" associations are connected with experiencing sexual harassment.

(Now I want to go off on a meandering but rewarding search for "animal names related to female genitalia," but I'm going to somehow resist.)

[luzula]

Beaver? : )

[jesse_the_k]

oh no, and it certainly fits our C6D universe. :p

Given you're blessed with polylingualism, feel free to share non-English samples.

... bearded clam (oyster)
bat cave
but any more mind-wracking is uneeded, because there is

http://timeglider.com/timeline/07f47d6b843da763
Jonathon Green's Timeline of Slang for Vagina, Vulva, Clitoris, and Public Hair
which provides sample usages across time!

My least favorite is "camel toe."

[luzula]

...public hair? : )

In Swedish, a fairly common word for the female genitals is "mus", which means "mouse". Also found "mussla" = mussel in an online list, though that's not one I've heard before. (Also, some of the words on that list were so disgusting I want to forget I about them now, please.)

[china_shop]

That's the reaction I had when I stumbled across a Swedish character in an RPF fic once. I was all "ewww, that is too close to me, I don't want to read it!"

Ha! I think I'd be like that about New Zealand RPF. I'm grateful for the distance that comes from most fandoms being based overseas (though I preferred having a Canadian fandom to having a US one, given how much US culture already dominates in so many ways).

[luzula]

Ha, interesting! So it's not just me, then. : ) And it's not just a language thing, either.

[toft]

This is very interesting to me!

[luzula]

I'm glad you enjoyed the post! It was interesting to think this stuff through.