Housemate trouble brewing - advice welcome

[luzula]

So tonight there was a discussion in my home where one of us (let's call him K) turned out to have some pretty disturbing opinions. We were talking about this guy who is wrong on the internet, named Jordan B. Peterson. Among (many) other things, he's against no-fault divorce, thinks a woman in high heels who does not want to be harrassed is a hypocrite, is against climate science, etc.

I was sitting with N (another person in the household) and we were rolling our eyes at this guy's opinions. Then K came into the conversation and it turned out that he actually thinks this Jordan B. Peterson is a great guy. He thinks that Peterson helps young frustrated men with his sage advice and that the things we're reacting against are just things that Peterson is saying to provoke and gain an audience and that they're not that bad. And that we're only reacting to them because we're not Peterson's audience. *eyeroll* We asked him didn't he think people like this were a danger? Wasn't Trump a danger either (another person who spouts stuff like this to get attention)? And he...equivocated.

N and I were upset by this, and before they went to bed, N sent me an email saying that they didn't feel comfortable living with K anymore and that this was just the last drop. It's true that there are other issues. K does do his share of the housework (at least when prompted), but he never takes initiatives for example to decide when we need to clean or fix things and is passive in the process of finding new housemates when needed (we have one fourth room which is small and there's a higher turnover of people there).

Actually N feels bad that K got into the household without going through an interview process. K was originally a friend/acquaintance of N who was in a spot of housing trouble and stayed temporarily with us. Then the person in the fourth room moved out and K got that room instead, and he later moved into one of the bigger rooms when the person who had that room moved.

It's possible that eventually N would leave because they don't want to live with K (they said so). And I really don't want that to happen, because I love living with them! And I would definitely prefer another housemate than K myself. OTOH I don't know how I feel about booting someone out of the shared apartment. I have been booted out once myself (IMO for ridiculous reasons on the face of it, but I guess really because some people just didn't like me--in that case I ended up in a far better place afterward).

Am I just being conflict-averse here? I mean, being housemates is a relationship, and it is reasonable that relationships can end when one or more people don't want to be in them anymore. Legally I have this covered--I hold the lease and have a secondary contract with him that I could end--but I am more concerned about the social aspects of it.

Or am I being intolerant? I do think that one should be able to discuss differences and not immediately cut people out once they express different opinions than me. If someone says something I disagree with at one point, that doesn't mean they're forever a bad person. OTOH it's not the same thing to say that one should be able to discuss with people in general, as to say that one needs to have a housemate relationship with such a person. And there are the other issues as well.

We have also just admitted a new fourth member who seems lovely, and I am sorry about involving them in the drama of this. They're moving in on the 1st of December.

Any advice, O internet friends? Have you ever been through something like this?

Comments

[isis]

It was a long time ago, but I have been through a similar situation. I think the key here is that N is feeling uncomfortable and wants to leave, and you would rather share with N than with K. I would suggest asking N straight-out if they are uncomfortable enough that they would feel better if K was out of the household, and if so, given the situation as you describe it here, I would ask K to leave now, before the fourth person moves in. If you wait, then they really should have a voice in the decision.

[luzula]

Thanks! Yeah, I'm leaning towards asking him to leave, and if we're doing it, it should be soon. Not looking forward to the awkwardness that will ensue during the months before he moves out, though. : / But I guess that's unavoidable, if we're doing this.

[lyr]

Cutting someone out of conversation isn't the same thing as not wanting to live with them. It's fine and natural to only want to live with people you like. In fact, that creates a happier situation for everyone, even the person you don't like. After all, a household with tension and conflict isn't comfortable no matter which side of it you're on. And you don't want to lose the people you actually do want to live with to that tension and conflict. So I say it's fine to ask K to find somewhere else to live. Besides, I think one of the great liberal values, tolerance, often leads us to try to mitigate social consequences for people with views like this. But without some social consequences, how are they going to get the idea that this is not okay?

[luzula]

Thanks! Yeah, I'm leaning towards asking him to leave. Not looking forward to the awkwardness that will ensue during the months before he moves out, though. : / But I guess that's better than long-term tension.

[glitteryv]

You asked if you are being conflict-averse. This might be an answer that falls into "too direct" but here I go: yes, as per what you said in your post, you are dancing around the fact that K is making you uncomfortable as well as N and, by logic, the new roomie as well.

Your home is supposed to be the safest space for you and the rest of the household. Like it or no, the tension between K and the rest of the household will grow. Given that you are the lease-holder, you are within your rights to ask K to leave.

Are you being intolerant? Not at all. Tolerance toward the kind of rhetoric Peterson, the Clown that calls himself the current president of the US, and everyone of their ilk is a waste of time. Tolerance is something that has been warped by the increasingly racist, bigoted, and misogynistic opinions of ppl who can't cope with things changing.

I second the advice upthread to get K out of the house now, when K has more than enough time to find accomodations elsewhere vs. waiting until the new roommate comes in.

[luzula]

Thanks! Yeah, you're right that I'm not looking forward to having that conversation, and the awkward months that will ensue before he actually moves out. Which I guess is a measure of conflict-averseness. But it's probably better than just closing my eyes and hoping it'll go away. *takes deep breath*

[glitteryv]

Hey, I get it. In an ideal world, there wouldn't be any conflict to avoid. :-/

If it's any consolation, it's been my experience that things almost never get out of hand when confronting a soon-to-be ex!roommate. And the peace of mind once the person is gone is totes worth any awkwardness while they move out. *Crosses her fingers on your behalf*

[seascribble]

I don't have advice on whether you're being intolerant or conflict averse (although I personally no longer have time or energy to engage with people like that who aren't related to me), but if keeping the person you don't mesh with well means losing the person you'd rather live with, then getting rid of them in the appropriate time frame (I assume as covered in your subcontract) is reasonable and fair and what is best for the household (even if K thinks it is unfair). It's an uncomfortable situation and I wish you the best for dealing with it.

[luzula]

Ha, you are so right with that comment about having to engage with the people you are related to. The origin of this thing is actually from my mom saying "so I saw this guy Jordan Peterson on a TV show, he seemed to have some good things to say!". And then I checked out what he was actually saying. *sigh*

And thanks! I'm leaning towards asking him to leave (as is probably obvious from the post).

[mergatrude]

It sounds to me that you want/need K to move out of the house. It also sounds to me that K is the sort of person who takes advantage of indecision (how they are there in the first place), so further, it sounds to me as if you are going to have to make a decision, make a plan, and stick to the plan no matter what "reasonable arguments" K may make. And it sounds to me that K is the sort of person to make them.

*hugs*

[luzula]

Thanks! *hugs back*

Yeah, I'm leaning towards asking him to leave. I'm just not looking forward to the whole thing, but sometimes we gotta do uncomfortable things. I'll make an update when we've decided.

[hurry_sundown]

FWIW, my vote is that you give K notice to vacate.

[luzula]

Thanks! Yeah, I guess it's leaning that way.

[princessofgeeks]

I have never been in a situation where I could vote out housemates, but I do live with people who love Jordan Peterson, etc.

I think the relevant details are not the person's politics, but how they do or do not contribute to the shared responsibilities of the place.

That would be the dealbreaker for me.

[luzula]

Well, my mom was the one who (approvingly) brought up Jordan Peterson in the first place. So it's not like I can get rid of everyone around me that don't share my politics either.

Politics are a dealbreaker for me if it goes too far, but of course I'm not expecting everyone to think exactly like me.

Thanks for the input!

[rushthatspeaks]

My experience with people who love Jordan Peterson is that what they really mean and believe in is the worst of his messages, while they use the best for cover. Honestly, liking him reads to me at this point as a giant label reading 'I AM A RACIST MISOGYNIST KYRIARCH'. Which is not something I would personally want to live with.

[luzula]

I have a hard time figuring out what K really thinks. In a Swedish context a lot of what Peterson is saying sounds ridiculous, but K never once told us he disagreed with any of it. He just made excuses for how Peterson was just saying it and it didn't really mean anything. Ugh.

[cahn]

I don't think that a single conversation should result in kicking out a housemate (that does sound intolerant to me), but it sounds like it's way more than a single conversation for N (and maybe for you too). And since you prefer N, K is going to have to go.

[luzula]

Yeah, it's more than that single conversation. I've actually lived with people in the past that I liked less than K and not done anything about it. But N bringing it up is kind of a catalyst, since I don't want to lose her.

[oneiriad]

Having never had housemates, I'm probably not the right person to be giving advice here, but it seems to me that there's a pretty big difference between not wanting to cut people out of conversations and sharing a house with them. Housing-wise, I'd say go with the person you want to keep living with.

Also, if you do give him notice, if I might suggest starting the process of finding a new fourth housemate right away? That way, he won't be able to come a few days before the moving out date and still not have found anywhere, can he please stay a few more weeks, because the space will be taken.

[luzula]

Thanks! We have two months' notice time, so the last of January would be his date to move out. That should be enough time to find something else, I think. And yeah, we'd definitely move forward with finding someone else who could move in by then, if nothing else than because we don't want gaps in the rent.

[lilysea]

I think the relevant question to ask is not

Has K done anything bad enough to deserve being asked to leave?

but rather

Do myself and N feel comfortable, safe, relaxed sharing a home with K?

You and N deserve a home where you feel comfortable, safe, and relaxed.

Home should be a HAVEN from the stresses of work; walking down the street; catching public transport...

[luzula]

Thanks! We don't feel unsafe, but we do feel frustrated. And yeah, we're leaning towards asking him to leave.

[scribe]

I agree with the bulk of what's been said here- your home should be a safe and comfortable and enjoyable place, and you don't owe anyone continued co-habitation if you decide you don't want to, for any reason.

On a personal note, my house asked a roommate to leave (with several months' notice) about a year and half ago now, and while those months were very awkward it was ABSOLUTELY worth it for the peace of mind that's resulted since. I mean, you may be permanently burning a bridge with K, but that doesn't sound it like it'd be too much of a concern.

[luzula]

Thanks! No, I'm not worried about burning a bridge with K--it's not like I'd want to hang out with him afterward. And good to know it was worth it for you. I think K is too avoidant to make things actively uncomfortable during the months before he moved out, but there would for sure be some passive discomfort.

[jesse_the_k]

What they said.

Best wishes at detangling K from your home.

[luzula]

Thanks! <3 We will talk with him tomorrow.