General update

[luzula]

An eventful week. Last weekend I was with my parents at the family "summer" place, closing it down for winter. We picked chanterelles and harvested two bucketfuls of Jerusalem artichokes, which we had not even set any this year--they just came up from leftover roots in the ground, I guess. Then I spent a few days having food poisoning; I can't recommend it.

And then this weekend I was down to visit my sister's family in Malmö. My two nieces are adorable. ♥ I watched Frozen II with the seven-year-old; she's very affectionate and kisses me and tells me that she loves me. The two-year-old was shy at first, but warmed up after a day. Awww. Also my sister and I got a whole evening singing together, which is rare indeed these days when she has small kids.

Unfortunately I also had a little trouble with my brother-in-law. He and mom had a conflict this summer which I had no part in, although of course there was still emotional labor involved on my part in handling the fall-out. We'd socialized with no problem on Friday and Saturday, but then on Sunday he got mad at me and left the room while we were discussing (of all things) glottal stops? While I'd thought we were just having a friendly discussion. : (

He's a Danish teacher, and told me that glottal stops carry meaning in Danish, as in, there are minimal pairs that only differ by a glottal stop. I didn't know that and thought it was interesting, and said that in Swedish (and English) there's often an initial glottal stop in words that start with a vowel, but it doesn't carry meaning. He did not believe this and apparently thought I was too assertive in trying to convince him it was the case. Also I began to ask him about whether Danish had minimal pairs with an initial glottal stop, and not just at the end which it had sounded like to me in the example he'd given? At which point he was like, what do you mean is it before or after the vowel, it's just part of the vowel? Me: But it's a stop?

Before I left, he came and said basically, "well, maybe I shouldn't have left like that, but you shouldn't have been so assertive; you should be more humble and admit you could be wrong". Ah well. I kept calm while replying to this, and said I was sorry to have upset him and would keep this in mind in future, but that he himself is often assertive in discussions, too. I've genuinely liked him in the past and always got along well with him before, but I guess it's time to be more careful around him. I know he has been struggling with depression, so there could be underlying problems that have nothing to do with me.

Hmm, I now begin to wonder whether the Danish "glottal stop" is actually some sort of semi-occluded sound instead? He was the one who used the English term glottal stop to explain, but OTOH then he later insisted it wasn't localized at one point in time but was drawn-out. Hmmm. Wikipedia supports this notion. I sent him a hopefully conciliatory email saying that this probably explains why we were talking past each other and that I was wrong in my assumption that the Danish sound had to be at the beginning or end of a vowel, but also provided links supporting my claim about glottal stops before initial vowels...I don't know whether this was wise or unwise. Oh well, we will see.

Gah, this is really a tiny quarrel, but these things just take up so much brainspace! I could've spent that time writing, or commenting on the latest FotH read-along post...

Comments

[cathexys]

OMG. Yes, luzula, too assertive is exactly the first thing that comes to mind when I think of you. *facepalm*

Glad the rest of your time was good!

[luzula]

Hee, well, you should ask my mom if she thinks I'm too assertive or not. *g* But that's with my mom; I am very seldom involved in conflicts with people other than her.

[princessofgeeks]

Hope it turns out to be a tempest in a teapot. Thinking of you.

[luzula]

Yeah, I hope so too! I just hate how this sort of thing occupies my brain out of all proportion--you know, you lie awake at night formulating replies to possible ways that he might reply to that email. Or at least I do. /o\

[hurry_sundown]

This is very different from the sort of thing we argue about in my family. ;-)

[luzula]

Ha ha, I can imagine! Our more serious family conflicts are definitely about things like interpersonal behavior, though...and the topics I most often disagree with my parents about have to do with politics. So we're mostly run-of-the-mill as well. : )

[nnozomi]

Goodness. I mean, if you can't be assertive in a conversation about glottal stops of all things, when can you be? (Not that it sounds like you were in fact too assertive in any way...) Hopefully he will settle down, and maybe "glottal stops" will eventually become a family joke for "random topics that get taken VERY SERIOUSLY"?
Glad to hear about the chanterelles and the singing and niece-kisses, anyway. Take good care of yourself <3

[luzula]

I hope for the "family joke" scenario. : ) I dunno, he just takes his dignity very seriously sometimes--I hope he doesn't make a big thing out of this.

Glad to hear about the chanterelles and the singing and niece-kisses, anyway. Take good care of yourself <3

Thanks, those were indeed good things! <3

[chestnut_pod]

Oh so much brain space indeed! Here's hoping it's just a few ruffled feathers, easily smoothed.

[luzula]

Yes, I do hope so! Thanks for the good wishes.

[lilysea]

I'm guessing you're a woman, and/or your brother-in-law perceives you as a woman?

Because this feels very gendered - I don't think your brother-in-law would be saying you were "too assertive" if your brother-in-law perceived you as a man.

[luzula]

Yes, I'm a woman. And yeah, it's possible there's a gendered component, though as I've never seen him having that type of discussion/conflict with a man, it's hard to say. He does take his dignity very seriously...

[mific]

Minor as the issue of glottal stops seems (and is!) this has to be about something else entirely. My bet would be a link to the earlier conflict with your mother plus his own issues, such that he's angry about something else and has unexpectedly, and unjustifiably, taken it out on you. I sympathise with it taking up brain-space, and I think it's both trivial and not-trivial. Ultimately, of course it's nonsense and trivial, but that shock of someone unexpectedly turning on you angrily, especially a family member, is very much not trivial and it would shock me too. That feeling of now having to be careful with him, of needing to tiptoe around him in case he bites again, isn't pleasant. Probably better not to engage with him and to let time pass. I hope he gets his own shit together but it would take me quite some time to trust him again and you have every right to be angry yourself about the "too assertive" bullshit. Very gendered, yes.

[luzula]

He wasn't angry/aggressive in a threatening way, at all, but it is still unpleasant, in the "oh no, now I have to spend a lot of emotional energy figuring out how to keep this family relationship working" sense. : (

Thanks for the sympathy. <3

[regshoe]

I had some difficulty getting my brain around the fact that that initial glottal stop before vowels, which I thought of as just sort of separating the word out, was the same thing as what I thought of as 'dropping the T at the end of words', so it can clearly be a confusing subject... but that's not really the point, of course, and I'm sorry about the quarrel! It doesn't sound as though you were too assertive—anyway, I hope things resolve themselves happily.

And yay for that mushroom and vegetable harvest!

[luzula]

Thanks for the good wishes! Ugh, I just hate how conflicts can take up so much brainspace that you would rather devote to more constructive things.

But the subject itself is interesting. I never got the hang of that thing where "the" turns into "t'", which I'm sure you heard in the attempt I had to make at a Yorkshire accent. : ) Because that is supposed to be a glottal stop as well, right?

[regshoe]

Agh, yes, that is frustrating.

Because that is supposed to be a glottal stop as well, right?

Hehe, yes :) That sounds like the same thing as 'dropping the T' to me—it's like you add a T to the previous word and then don't pronounce it, which when I put it like that does sound pretty confusing!...

[killclaudio]

Oof, that sounds like a rough week, I'm sorry. I know how much mental bandwith this stuff can take up, because you can't help but go over it in your mind, but sometimes you've just got to let people have whatever weird reaction they're going to have. I hope you had fun apart from that! Your nieces sound incredibly cute. ♥

[luzula]

Yeah, intellectually I know it would be best to just stop going over this conflict in my head, but unfortunately brains don't work that way! Well, but I have lots of other things going on at least, so eventually I suppose I'll succeed.

And yes, my nieces are incredibly cute. <3

[riverlight]

but you shouldn't have been so assertive; you should be more humble and admit you could be wrong

I don't know him and I only know you through this medium, but: I want to launch him into the sun. Fuck offfffffff.

[luzula]

Well, we have settled it now. He replied to my email saying he agreed with everything I said (meaning that he admitted that I was right on the issue he had denied), and thanked me for the visit, was generally polite, etc. I do think he could've shown a bit more of that humbleness he wanted me to show...but whatever, I've been able to let it go.

Ugh, I hate how much brainspace it took up before that, though. /o\ And thanks for the sympathy!

[jesse_the_k]

I hope that this is truly the end of the convo.

When I ruminate about an interpersonal issue, it's like walking in a marsh in leather shoes. Every step requires caution and deliberation, which sucks.

Hooray for nieces! There to be cute, and then gone to somebody else when they're cranky.

[luzula]

Yeah, I hope so too.

Hooray for nieces! There to be cute, and then gone to somebody else when they're cranky.

Indeed! And the parents appreciate some time to themselves, too, while I look after the kids for a while...