Translation into English: a question

[luzula]

Is the word "employer" a politically neutral one in English? If not, is there another word which is used by the left? In Swedish, there's a right/left divide in what word is used: there's the one which literally means "provider-of-work", and the one which means "buyer-of-work", reflecting obvious political differences.

I ask because I'm translating a political text into English, which is a bit different from translating fic...

Comments

[paraka]

I would consider "employer" politically neutral. I certainly can't think of any similar words that would fit the kind of divide you're describing.

[seascribble]

I think it is politically neutral, yes. I think of terms like "small business owner" and "entrepreneur" as more politically charged words, and they're not really synonyms for employer.

[jjhunter]

Yup! 'Employer' is politically neutral (and I'm fascinated that there's a choice diction-wise for similar meaning in Swedish).

[luzula]

Thanks, that's helpful!

[luzula]

Yeah, "entrepreneur" is a more politically charged word here, too. Thanks!

[frayadjacent]

Wow, interesting. There's definitely nothing that distinctive, and I'd say "employer" is neutral, but a lot of leftists might say "boss" instead, though that word is also more informal.

Non-leftists in the US only really use the word "boss" to mean a specific individual, i.e., "my boss." Whereas people with a class-orientation would also refer to "bosses" as a class of people. Or we'd just say "capitalists", but those two groups aren't identical, just overlapping.

I love that distinction, that's really interesting. I wish we had a word that meant "buyer-of-work".

[luzula]

Thanks, that's helpful! There's a corresponding difference in "employee" in Swedish, too: either "one who is provided with work" or "one who sells work".

[luzula]

I dunno, "boss" is not really synonymous with "employer", though? I mean, often your boss is also employed by your employer, right? At least if I interpret the words right.

There's a corresponding difference in "employee" in Swedish, too: either "one who is provided with work" or "one who sells work".

[frayadjacent]

Boss can mean the person immediately above you, or it can mean the owner/CEO/executive director (if you work for a non-profit) etc. It means a lot of different things depending on context. E.g., when the IWW sang "dump the bosses off your back", they weren't just referring to foremen, but also to the capitalists in charge.

But to most people in the US, "employer" would be the obvious word for what you're looking for. It's mostly just class-struggle oriented leftists who would say "boss" or "capitalist" instead. "Boss" isn't ideal but it at least hints at the class-relation that's going on, which is why we would often use it. But we're a vanishingly small fraction of the population in the US.

I've noticed in Australia, people say "worker" much more and "employee" much less, including for people with office or service industry jobs. But I haven't really noticed a difference in usage of the word "employer".

[riverlight]

Yes, at least the way I'd interpret it, I'd use "boss" only for an individual—i.e. the person I report to, whether immediately or indirectly. (I might have several bosses of different levels.) Whereas "employer" could be a synonym for a boss, but employer sounds more to me like the term I'd use for a firm.

So if I worked for a gentleman named David, and David had his own small business, I'd call David my boss, though possibly also my employer (in the sense that his small firm employs me). If I worked for Google, though, or Microsoft, or something, then Google would only be my employer.

(I think "boss" has the connotation of "someone who assigns me tasks" and "employer" would be "someone who pays my paychecks," hence why it can overlap but doesn't always.)

[desireearmfeldt]

I think that "boss," singular, referring to an individual, usually means one's direct supervisor or head of team/company, rather than the class useage. Would you call an individual "a boss" meaning that they belong to the class of bosses? (I'm not sure.)

[desireearmfeldt]

Yeah, I agree with all of this -- that's a good description of the overlap.

[luzula]

I've noticed in Australia, people say "worker" much more and "employee" much less, including for people with office or service industry jobs. But I haven't really noticed a difference in usage of the word "employer".

Interesting! And yeah, often leftist people will use "arbetare = worker" instead of the more formal word "one who sells work" for employee in Swedish.

I should say that the leftist "buyer-of-work" word for employer in Swedish is used by a minority of the population (though not a tiny one). In official state documentation, for example, they use the "provider-of-work" word.

[frayadjacent]

Yeah, people on the US left -- or at least, the leftist circles I run in -- use it this way quite a bit.

[frayadjacent]

Interesting. Good luck with your translation!

[jesse_the_k]

There's a sneaky newish term in bureaucratic American English: stakeholder. It envisions some magic universe in which all participants in an decision — be it installing a stop sign, or siting a toxic waste dump, or governing a university — speak with equal power. It disappears the difference between the janitor and the cube farm toiler and the manager and the board of directors and the legislature and the person who lives next door and the person who lives across town.

Just had to share that, cause it annoys me so much, and I hope there's no Euro-equivalent.

[dragonfly]

"Employer" No political associations.

[luzula]

I don't know if we have the word, but we do have the sentiment. Like, the FSC (Forest Stewardship Council) operates a certification system for forestry, and it has three "chambers": industry, social, and environmental, where "stakeholders" can take part. In theory these three chambers are all of equal importance and weight! Yeah, right. I'm sure you can see how that goes...

[luzula]

Thanks! : )

[feroxargentea]

The only variation I can think of is that if you are technically self-employed, not an employee, your apparent employer is your "client". But only for official paperwork, and it's a special case anyway.

[luzula]

Yeah, that sounds like a special case. Thanks anyway! : )

[desireearmfeldt]

I can't think of a common synonym for "employer" offhand. The provider/buyer-of-work distinction is not one that's made a lot in the U.S as far as I know, and I can't think of any similar English linguistic distinction.

Mostly in English you "hire" someone, meaning give them money to do work, and I guess there's generally a connotation that the employer buys (or leases) the employee's labor, rather than provides them with the opportunity to work. But I can't think of any terms that would have the connotation of providing work-opportunity.

[tweedisgood.livejournal.com]

What's the exact context of the word? I find it helps to know before advising.

[luzula]

Thanks, that's helpful!

[luzula]

It's in a text stating the aims and methods of the (syndicalist) labor union I'm in. I'm translating it because people have been wanting a text in English to refer potential members to. The sentence is this: "Vi låter oss inte påverkas av politiska partier, statliga myndigheter eller arbetsköparna." which I have currently translated as "We won't let ourselves be influenced by political parties, by the state, or by employers."

The context for this is that in Sweden there are close ties between the majority unions and the Social Democrat party, and also close ties between certain of the unions and the employers, so the sentence is meant to dissociate the union from that.

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

In US terms, employer is neutral; "Job Provider" is the right-wing loaded term, and "Boss" the labor/left wing (and definately by inheritance syndicalist, since the IWW was and is the explicitly anti-boss lunion). These distinctions are historical, as the very idea of a class divide between Boss and Worker is currently forbidden from "serious" political and social discourse.

Julia, possibly grumpy and radicalized on this issue, as my daughter worked from 1-11pm Christmas Eve and Christmas explaining to people how to use their cell phones.

[tweedisgood.livejournal.com]

I would say "employers" is fine in this context, then. It sounds pretty much as it would in a similar document in England, where the Labour Party and unions have also historically been linked (and mostly still are)but there is no specifically left-flavoured term for employer - unless you go hard left, where you get polemical terms talking of exploitation and capitalism which would be out of place in your context, IMO

[luzula]

Okay, thanks for the help! : )

[keerawa.livejournal.com]

I'm fairly active with my union, and I agree 100% with Julia's analysis.

[luzula]

Thanks, this is very helpful. Ha, this post is getting the most responses of anything I've posted in a while. *g*

And ouch, those are some sucky working hours. : (

[luzula]

Thanks!